Talk:Vigil
Voice Actor I know this sounds wierd, but listen to Vigil -- doesn't he sound like the dude who played Jack Bauer (Kiefer Sutherland?) XD 86.147.159.129 22:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC) Trivia Kinda seems a little superfluous... I think people would make the connection between Vigil's name and the definition of the term 'vigil' without having to state it here. I'm not going to remove the trivia; just wanted to point this out. 23:24, January 8, 2010 (UTC) :But it isn't superfluous that a VI created millenia before the first human use of (or conception of) the word vigil would be named Vigil and would be performing what could be seen as a vigil over the facility, is it? SpartHawg948 23:39, January 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Remember, the game does auto-translation. Most of the aliens don't speak English. Presumably, Vigil was named an equivalent word in the Prothean language and chose to self-identify with an equivalent English word when speaking to Shepard. IIRC, Vigil speaks in English, having picked it up from comm chatter. And if my memory is off, it's still more likely that the Cipher is allowing you to understand him in English, not that the Protheans put together a name that was intelligible in English. ShadowRanger 18:00, February 23, 2010 (UTC) VI or AI? Vigil seems to be much more advanced than a standard VI, in fact from the way it speaks I would say it's much closer to EDI than those holograms you talk to on the Citadel. Not to mention that when Shepard asks if it's an AI, it gives an answer that seems to confirm it. I'd say this article should state that Vigil is an AI —Lalala la 10:31, May 16, 2011 (UTC) :But that is incorrect. Vigil is a VI, but a much more advanced one than say Avina, who is the one you talk to on the Citadel and flat out states that she is a VI I might add. As to the answer it gives, it is merely stating that it is a more advanced VI with more programming than ones we have encountered previously. Lancer1289 17:22, May 16, 2011 (UTC) Although Vigil doesn't explicitly answer "yes" when asked if it is an AI, it sure as heck doesn't confirm, or even imply that it is a VI. It referes to itself as an advanced non-organic management system, and is capable of reasoning and rationalisation. It even goes as far as justifying its actions to the player. I haven't seen anything to suggest that it is a VI. --Aerid77 13:37, June 30, 2011 (UTC) :The thing is, Vigil isn't self-aware, which rules out the possibility of being an AI, but it's much more capable than a VI, no doubt about that. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 13:52, June 30, 2011 (UTC) Why does is have to be one or the other? The VI/AI thing is a purely modern (in terms of ME Universe/Reaper cycle) idea based on circumstances that occurred well after the extinction of the Protheans. Whatever Vigil is, it's unique, and any effort to categorize it as VI or AI is doomed to failure.JakePT 15:03, June 30, 2011 (UTC) ::Yet it couldn't be characterized as both, couldn't it? Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 15:18, June 30, 2011 (UTC) :::Addendum: What about as a VI/AI hybrid? Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 15:19, June 30, 2011 (UTC) What makes you think Vigil is not self aware? He quite clearly justifies his own actions, and expresses conclusions and thoughts he reached on his own. The Codex says that VIs aren't capable of learning. I can see a lot of wild assumptions both here and in the article. He refers to himself specifically as a non-organic management program, not a VI, so you cannot definitively say that he is a VI. And no, he can't stay as a VI "for now" if you take any of what is said about this wiki seriously. I've seen all of the talk pages and notices stressing the idea that this wiki is about facts not speculation. Assuming Vigil is a VI or not self aware is purely speculation, and has no place in the article. --Aerid77 06:16, July 6, 2011 (UTC) You can't state with any degree of certainty that Vigil is a VI without proof. If you do, then you are letting your speculations be imprinted on the article as pseudo-facts. Call him what he calls himself ingame, or find some proof he is a VI. --Aerid77 06:25, July 6, 2011 (UTC) :(Edit conflict)Vigil is a VI and it has no free will or is self-aware like an AI, e.g. EDI, does. Vigil wais a more complicated VI then what we are used to seeing, but it is still a VI. An AI in the ME universe is described as being self aware, capable of free thought, and Vigil does none of that. Not to mention the whole quantum blue box thing, but that's a different issue. Vigil fits into the VI category nicely, and what you state about facts and speculation is actually in this case supported with the in game evidence. Vigil is clearly not an AI, behaves like a VI, fills the role of what VIs do, and while it is more complicated than say Avina, it is still a VI, not an AI and therefore the article is fine as is and what it states is supported by the evidence from Mass Effect, while the assumption of it being an AI has little to no support. So again, the article stating that it is a VI is correct and consistent with how VIs act in the ME universe, therefore, it is fine as is. Lancer1289 06:27, July 6, 2011 (UTC) My question was how do you know that Vigil is incapable of free thought and is not self aware. Like I have said a few times, he justifies his actions and expresses conclusions he reached on his own. I never made the assumption he was an AI, in fact, I made it clear that we don't know either way. The quantum blue box is not an issue here, as it could be present anywhere on Illos, and the hologram could be projected anywhere alse. So please, do tell me how you can know what is in Vigil's head. Note that Vigil refers to himself explicitly as an "advanced non-organic analysis system." --Aerid77 06:31, July 6, 2011 (UTC) :(Edit conflict again)And you are making the assumption that it can think and it has self awareness. Do you see a problem with that? Vigil states that it was programmed to do, but nothing more than that. It states that it did this because this happened and that was a scenario that was programmed into it. It's simple programming, if this happens and this happens, then do this. If these conditions are met, then do this and not this. Vigil states that it did what it did because of that programming and there really isn't much getting around that, specifically the word programming. Vigil followed its program like a VI and didn't show what you are arguing for. You are saying that it did have free thought and free will, despite the fact the VI side has more support from its own dialogue. Right now, the article does follow what is supported in the game, and there isn't much support for the AI camp. Lancer1289 06:39, July 6, 2011 (UTC) How about we just go by what Vigil calls itself in-game? No calling it a VI or an AI, and no "similar to a VI or AI"? That way, there are no assumptions such as are present in the two visions tried thus far. It seems the most sensible and fact-based solution, at least IMO. SpartHawg948 06:42, July 6, 2011 (UTC) You're even making assumptions about my argument. I didn't assume that he had free will, I stated that he shows evidence of it in his justifications, and that he shows initiative in bringing the characters to his chamber. My point was there is not enough evidence either way to definitively call him one or the other. You are making assumptions that he can't think. --Aerid77 06:45, July 6, 2011 (UTC) I agree with SpartHawg948, which I have been stating all along, although probably not all that well. He does in fact show thought and self awareness however, and even has opinions: "In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them." --Aerid77 06:48, July 6, 2011 (UTC) The make "his own choices nd reaches his own conclusions" claim is not certain at all. Vigil makes clear his actions is killing most personal to maintian the lives of others ws not due to his own choices, but contingincy programming tht he followed in such situation. Thus he did not decide on his own. His justifaction my have been both a result of his programming and the fact he had the persoallity imprint of real scientist who believed that. This does not mean he has that scientists personality and skills, rather the opinions and views of the scientist is another progrmming instrustion to follow. Also all the apparent conclusions he reaches on his own could very well hve been the conclusions of the Prothen scientists, not him. It would mke sense that before going to the Citadel, the scientists would download Vigil with all their data and findings should another find him. Also he may hve been repeating the scientists veiws rther then forming his own in the above quote.--Ironreaper 06:55, July 6, 2011 (UTC) Of course that is possible, but then that is also speculation in itself. It "could very well" have been anything, but that relies on assumptions. He even expresses concern: "I fear they suffered a slow, grim death." --Aerid77 06:57, July 6, 2011 (UTC) I think that SpartHawg's opinion is the most realistic. If you want an article based purely on fact and not speculation (even if one thinks their own speculation is fact) then the best option is to refer to Vigil word-for-word what he calls himself in game, an "advanced non-organic analysis system." --Aerid77 07:04, July 6, 2011 (UTC) Here's something worth considering: the Codex explicitly states that a VI is not capable of learning, yet Vigil was able to monitor the squad's communications and accurately learn their language. Also note how the article states that he was "relieved to see the squad" and is "desperate to help Shepard." This indicates at least some level of emotional capability and independent thought. --Aerid77 11:33, July 12, 2011 (UTC) Contradiction? Something I just noticed. When you ask Vigil about the Beacons, it explains that they were used by the surviving scientists on Ilos to send a message to any other survivors after the Reapers left. And yet, during the last mind-meld session with Liara (when she identifies the location of the Conduit as Ilos), she describes the vision from the beacons as a warning about the Reapers. Now, if it really was a warning (and it certainly looks like it), that contradicts what Vigil says. A warning would have to be sent either while the Reapers were still there, or right at the beginning of the invasion. Not after they leave. Could this simply be ascribed to Liara misinterpreting what she's seeing (even if she does have access to the exact same info as Shepard)? Or is this a blooper? Nilfalasiel 16:28, January 18, 2012 (UTC) :From what the game explains, there are two messages. The first one, the one that actually leads you to Ilos, was sent after the Reapers left, to warn any surviving Protheans about the Reapers, and what they did. Another reason that I think it was sent was perhaps so that it could be picked up by new species that will evolve to warn them about the Reapers. The second, which is only heard on Ilos, deems to describe what the scientists did. Lancer1289 17:09, January 18, 2012 (UTC) Yes, I was only referring to the first message (Shepard's vision), since, as you say, the second one is only heard on Ilos. If that one was broadcast through the beacons, it would presumably have been sent before the vision message, since only the latter remained stored in them. It just sounds like Vigil describes the vision message as a call for survivors, whereas Liara describes that very same message as a warning. It seems odd to me to send a warning to survivors after the Reapers have left: 1) if they're survivors, then they presumably successfully hid from the Reapers, and would therefore know about them (ie. they don't need to be warned); and 2) if the Reapers have left, then there's no more danger, and therefore no need for a warning. But maybe I'm simply overthinking things. What you said about the message being designed to warn new species would make sense, except that the message is sent Prothean through Prothean beacons. Remember what Shiala tells Shepard: the message was designed for a Prothean mind and would be difficult to piece together without the Cipher. Meaning that any species that didn't have access to the Cipher would have a hard time understanding it. Seems like an unnecessarily convoluted means of sending something meant as a universal warning, no? The only reason Shepard even knew it was about Reapers before having the Cipher was because he/she heard the word mentioned in Tali's recording. Nilfalasiel 18:26, January 18, 2012 (UTC) A VI? Vigil is a VI? I think he a VI wouldn't be able to shut down lifepods. Or did I miss anyhthing crucial? :Vigil is a VI, and VI's can do whatever they are programmed to do. The only difference between a VI and an AI is that VI's can't think for themselves and depend on prearranged protocols to carry out their functions. -- Commdor (Talk) 18:22, November 12, 2012 (UTC) :As said above he is a VI he was programmed to turn the pods off in the order of least essential first in the case power ran out and it did and he turned them off one by one until there was only roughly a dozen left. They never thought to just plug some new battreys in? He was out of power not destroyed they never thought to just plug some new battery's in? i can see the conversation now. "the VI you encountered on ilos is no longer active so you have no evidence" "he was out of power you never thought to plug some new battery's in?" "oh uhm we uhh.... THEY DONT EXIST!" "yeah, and i thought salairans where the smart ones guess not if even a human can figure that out".